Good Disruption: Disruptor: Ralph Sampson, NBA Legend

UVA Darden.

The Disruption, a lively discussion between UVA Darden School of Business professors Yael Grushka Cocaine and Mike Lennox on cutting edge technologies and practices that are challenging the status quo.

Welcome to our special subseries on disruptors.

In this episode, Ralph Sampson.

And now over to Mike and Yael.

Hey Yel.

Hey Mike, how are you doing?

I'm doing great.

I am so excited because we are now pioneering a new, uh, theme within our Good Disruption podcast around good disruptors.

I am so excited about this.

Um, I think we're in our 3rd year of our podcast, if I'm not mistaken, Mike, and I don't know if anybody's keeping track at all, but Um, finally, uh, our time, we've been wanting to do this for a while, and I'm excited that it's here and that we're really gonna try and do this.

Talk about disruptors and those incredible inspirational people that, uh, make things happen, right?

Yeah.

Do you, do you want to define for us what a good disruptor is?

Oh, good disruptor.

I don't know that I would put the word good or bad, or maybe we need to kind of step away from our harsh definitions, but even disruptor, like how do we think about a disruptor?

Um, definitely leaders who, uh, uh, change industries or, uh, make us think about industries differently, um, step change the environment around them.

I don't know how, how are you to think about.

No, I like that.

I mean, we, we use the term in the positive sense to be very clear here.

So when we think of good disruptors, these are people like you said, who redefine their fields, who've made contributions in various, you know, uh, aspects of life, and, um, are just, you know.

Those, those catalysts that we have in our, in our world.

All right, so let me ask you a question here.

Do you play basketball at all?

Definitely, I do not.

I love to watch it.

It's one of those sports that I can definitely watch, and I've been watching it since I've been a very young child, but, um, I do not play.

I, I run, as you know, anything with a ball and coordination is not for me, so I can run and barely bat.

So, so I, you know, to brag, I did play in high school.

I played all my high school.

High School, a high school team, um, I like to say I was a specialist.

Uh, they would bring me into the game when we were either down by 20 points or up by 20 points, you know, to preserve the lead or spark a rally.

Uh, I did lead my team in fouls per minute.

Um, definitely, you know, fouled a lot in the few minutes I would get into the game.

Not sure that that's what you want to be proud of, Mike, but that's, you know, I'll take it wherever I could, you know, I could get it well.

Let me, with no further ado, introduce our guest, uh, who really needs no introduction.

He is a legend, uh, certainly a legend at the University of Virginia, but a legend far beyond that, uh, a legend in the NBA, uh, and has gone on to do an amazing amount of, uh, different things and, and contributions throughout his life.

Uh, we're just absolutely thrilled to have, uh, Ralph Sampson here with us.

Just quickly, Ralph.

You know, 3-time national, uh, College Player of the Year, uh, NBA Rookie of the Year, uh, 4-time NBA All-Star, and most importantly, inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame.

Um, again, a basketball legend.

But before I let you speak, I want to highlight some more of your recent activities here, which I think, but before you do that, Mike, can I just say, uh, Ralph, we're so excited that you're here.

Um, Charlottesville, while it's small, it is special, and There are very few people that are considered local celebrities, and you are definitely one of them.

So we're honored.

I, I made the big time.

I'm good.

If you're world famous in Charlottesville, your fame goes far, far beyond that.

Well, just quickly, you know, in 2008, he joined, uh, 76 Capital, which is a sports technology venture capital fund, investing in a whole portfolio of different, uh, technologies and companies in this, in this arena.

Um, he is a, uh, entrepreneur in terms of restaurateuring, uh, as a, a, a restaurant in Charlottesville.

Uh, he has something called the Samson Group that provides business advisory services, um, to companies and others, and most recently announced the plans for the Samson Basketball Academy, um, which not only is providing camps and clinics and structural development for young athletes.

It also has as part of it, just how do you think about your way to success.

So I definitely want to talk more about that, uh, as we go through this.

But, but first, Ralph, thank you so much for being with us.

Well, thank you guys for having me.

Good to be on campus at Darden.

It's, um, always good to be up on this side.

Always stay here at the Kempton.

Oh, very good, nice, extremely well, give me a nice suite and a big bed, so.

Thank you guys for all that as well.

It's a great place.

Big bed is, uh, very, very, as it were.

Well, that actually reminds me of something, a story, a legend about you that I think it has to be true.

So Ralph, you lived on the lawn in your 4th year.

I actually lived on the lawn and I was an undergrad at UBA my 4th year as well.

But the story was always they had to remove the closet to make a bed big enough for you to fit in.

Is that, is that correct?

Whereas you know, uh, the lawn, you have a, a sink and a closet, put your clothes, and in between you have a bed.

The bed was a twin bed.

So it did not quite fit.

So, as a, as a freshman's first year, um, I was in Chuttle, which is no longer there, uh, but it's now the high-rise dorm, which is one of these new dorms that's now, it was a new dorm.

Yeah, the old dorm's not going away.

It was the new dorms they have now and the new dorms are the new dorms.

So, anyway, so we had a suite with like 5 rooms in it, and then I had a mattress made, uh, that was a twin mattress, but it was long enough for me to sleep in, in the room by myself.

So we kept that mattress, ironically, and then we put that mattress in the lawn room.

Well, I had a good friend of the family make me a, a bed that would fit that mattress, so they had to take the closet out to fit the room.

So we took the closet out and we had a bunk bed, basically, but we put drawers underneath so I could put my clothes in.

So, yeah, it worked out.

We, we kept that bed at least 2 years.

Yeah, and it was good.

How was it living on the lawn?

Was, uh, did I imagine you attracted a lot of attention living there?

You know, it was something that I, you know, like, I'm gonna, how I'm gonna do this during the season and what's gonna happen as well.

So it was a great concept.

I love the lawn.

Uh, I go back now and I've created the Lawn Sick Society.

So I go back every year and meet the person that's in the room, wanting to tell them where the secret compartment is and what's under there as well and have the name of it.

So that's been a fun ride for me over the last number of years.

But, uh, they put the closet back they put the closet back they put the closet back and then, uh, redirect the thing, renovate it a little bit, but the fun part was this fall and the spring.

And then so.

You know, I always wanted to be a regular student, and then, so being there.

Uh, early practice, senior year, I know I'm going pro at the end of the year, so we're looking at it.

So I would run from the lawn to University Hall.

Then we run 3 miles like, OK, great.

I was never a great runner, which we have on this podcast, right?

You're referring to Yael, just to be clear, not me.

One or the other, right?

So I, I find taking credit for being the runner in this call.

I, I'm not the basketball player, the runner.

You're good, yeah.

So back in the day, right, there.

University Hall, and then across the street with the track, period.

And then back with Tarnell was a trail, running trail.

And it didn't make sense to me to run 3 miles, being 7'1, 7'4 on a running trail where I could twist my ankle.

That's my excuse.

But Ricky Stokes and the boys would go out, and by the time I got to the trail, they were coming back and I was still going out.

And so we would have breakfast, but it was fun.

That was my running days.

I could, I, I could, I tell people all the time.

I could never run a mile.

I run a 220.

I could never run a mile, but I was pretty good at going up and down the court.

Can I ask, um, how did your experience as an athlete kind of prepare you to be a business leader?

We talk a lot, uh, in business school, and we think about there are certain things in somebody's past, like being an athlete.

How does that prepare for like a, an entrepreneurial mindset or business leadership mindset?

Yeah, great question.

I mean, I think the initial thing is, um, The, the, the work ethic you have to have to be in business.

It's similar to being an athlete if you want to be a top athlete in, in the world.

That's the first thing I would do.

My mother, accountant by trade, my father worked, you know, at a factory.

They created aluminum windows and doors.

So I saw their work ethic early from right across the, uh, the mountains here, right? in Harrisonburg, Harrisonburg, right, right, right there.

It used to be called near all the windows and doors you see with metal frames that he made over there many years ago, obviously, God rest his soul, but I, I could see the work ethic.

And then always, we had to go to the farm, old time family farm, and in the mornings, you would have to go at 6 o'clock sometimes and work with your uncles.

And then after the afternoon you go and then we would butcher uh on Thanksgiving Day or afterwards as well.

So you learn the work ethic because you see your mom and dad work.

So I learned it at an early age.

And then my mother would say, make your 80% better than anybody's 100%.

And anything you do.

So if it's making your bed, so.

When I go to hotels, I don't have maids.

I make the bed up myself.

They leave me towels, whatever, because I need to have it.

And I'm very crazy with this.

And me and my mom have a fit.

We try to challenge each other that she's 88 and doing extremely well.

Who's going to wash the dishes first?

Who's going to put them away still today.

And if I put them in the wrong place, she gets mad.

Right, this goes over here.

You're always the sun, no matter how old you are, you're always the sun.

I'm older now, but the competitive spirit is always there.

But that work ethic at an early age is very crucial to life anyway, but also, uh, to the business world as well.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, we did an analysis a few years ago about what are the traits of our students that lead to like eventual like work success and the like.

And one of them that we found as a correlation.

Uh, and probably a causation was, uh, being a Division One athlete.

So our, our NBA students who were previous Division One athletes, it's, it's predicted.

Yeah, we did a, we did a series a number of years ago now with Nestle.

At the test, it's probably been over 10 years ago now where they want to see athletes in a, a program that actually sponsored and see if they could be a good salesperson at a car dealership.

And each and every one, it was 5 guys and there were 3 girls, 3 guys, 3 girls and 42 guys, whatever.

And each one got trained, and they were the #1 salesperson in 6 weeks.

That's amazing.

I mean, because they, because they were on time.

They were scared to be late, because they would get reprimanded one way or another, right?

And then they wanted to learn everything they could after the fact.

And I like the work you tied it to the work ethic and something that came from home and that you had from a young age, which was both a contributor to your success in sports and in business, but maybe there's also something about learning how to deal with failure.

I mean, really, no athlete is always successful.

There's always kind of, and there's a lot. stake at, you know, the stakes are high and you're in those stressful moments and you learn to kind of enjoy the highs but also deal with the lows and maybe that also prepares us for business in some way.

Is that also something that you got from being an athlete?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

So I can't tell you how many points I had in any game.

But I damn sure can tell you how many turnovers I had.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

And I would go back and, and watch videotapes, especially when I got to the NBA.

I had a coach named Bill Fitch.

Coached at Boston, went up there, one came to Houston, one down there, and he would make me, not only because I would do it at UVA because I was in the communication, uh, department here, but I would look at the videotapes all the time of watching gosh play.

Uh, just to get better and see if I could emulate a Bill Russell or somebody like that as well.

But I learned more as I got to the NBA where Bill Fitch, my rookie year, would make me sit down for days and days and days and watch Larry Bird, Robert Parish, Kevin Kell play.

And see how to watch the video and see their mistakes.

So I would go back after a game and say, I had these turnovers.

Why?

Because I prepared, why not?

And I look at the video again.

So my turnovers became my value asset.

Technique because I wanted to see what I did wrong.

And then I would go try to perfect that.

I didn't have to shoot anymore or whatever, but if I turned over the ball because I couldn't dribble more, I would dribble more.

If I didn't do the move the right way that I was taught or that I knew, and I would perfect it.

And then I started to coach him many years later.

And when they had the IBL in the National League, we went to the championship in Richmond the first year, because I took two players, both from Virginia, Junior Burres was one of them.

We ran one play the whole series and won the championship.

We ran it so well because there were different assets to it, right?

There were different aspects.

And I, I had benched two guys that played in the NBA and this was a minor league of the NBA.

I took two guys that played in the NBA like, y'all didn't want to run a play.

And I put Junior Burrows in it, pick down, pop up, shoot.

He did it every day on time, and we, and when they're winning.

So it's just, just a unique ability that you can have in the business world, but also as an athlete that tie in, I think to be successful, and everybody had their work ethic.

My mom had their work ethic.

And so I got it innately, so it's, uh, different.

We will definitely talk about some of the more recent things you've been involved with and, and what's happening in the, in especially the collegiate sports world, but I, I've gotta ask while I have you here, uh, you know, a basketball question, right?

So, When I think about your career and what you brought to the to the court in terms of your skill set, um, for a big man, especially, your ability to handle the ball, to shoot and do things that perhaps a lot of big guys didn't do back in the day.

Now you fast forward and you got like Wendy out there.

Who is that?

Am I?

So this is my question, like, how would your game be different if you came up today than back in the, back in the 80s?

Well, I made these bold statements, um, early on, and it goes back to my high school coach.

Uh, I averaged, which I don't know because I didn't keep the start stats, whatever, but I averaged 30 points and 20 rebounds a game in high school.

Won 33 state championships.

I was almost at those, I think it was more like 0-0, but it was there's a 30 on it, had a 30, so between the two of us, we averaged about 15.

There you go.

There you go.

I, I'll give you this part of my, I'll give you part of mine.

But anyway, he taught me at an early age because I got so frustrated because I couldn't get the ball.

And it would be a boxing one or the zone, whatever, and I'll be like get the ball.

So, I would take the ball in the game and dribble up the court deliberately because I was mad and I would turn it over.

And he, he was left-handed, he stomped his left foot.

He called me stick.

You can't do that.

You got whatever.

But if you want to do it, here's what we're gonna do.

So he played me on the basketball court with the two. 22 is uh, a point guard and, uh, uh, another guard, the two fastest players on our team, Tian Williams and Tony Carter.

And I would have to dribble every day in practice to beat them off the court.

If I did that in practice, I'd do it in the game.

So, I emulated that and I kept that.

It's still in my mindset today.

If I can do it, then I can do it in a game.

So I started there.

And then I tell people all the time, my statement was, you know, if I was instilled coming out of high school, I could play in the NBA today out of high school, just because my skill set was there, because the physicality of the game is different.

I mean, I, I was watching the game last night against, um, Houston and the Wizards.

Kevin Durant, love him to death, whatever, but they didn't touch any bodies at all, as far as physical.

And then the way we played.

You know, you went to play like Bill Lambier, well, I had a guy named the meanest guy, the toughest guy I played against.

I thought, I always tell people that, who's the toughest guy?

I say myself, because if I wasn't mentally ready to go, I'll go get my butt kicked.

And we fought sometimes during the game as well as whatever, but a guy named.

Maurice Lucas.

Right.

Luke, sweet, sweet guy, passed away a number of years ago, but he would punch me in the chest before the jump ball.

Like, I'm gonna punch you.

I think, look, why, why?

And, and, and he would be mean and I didn't know him until the other team, but after he retired, and I retired, we got the guy said, B, I'll punch you in the chest because I couldn't catch you on the court.

And I knew if I didn't punch you right now, your mindset would have been to take me and run me up and down the court.

So he knew that.

So he made a statement right before.

So I learned a lot from him after.

As well, like when you're in business or you're doing something, you make sure you take the first punch.

You make sure you set the, you set the tone, you take the punch, and then they gotta respond.

And then when they respond, you respond back to that.

So basketball has a lot of analogies for me in, in life in the world as well.

Yeah, well, that, that's great.

Um, well, I would have loved to see you in this era, you know, the number of 3s you would have hit and things like that.

I, I probably didn't shoot, but 100 threes in my, if 1003s in my whole career, maybe.

You know, then they had the 3s in, in, uh, college, uh, my, my senior year, and Darryl Wittenberg, you know, won, won the national title at that point in time, but that was inside the arc, that was inside the key.

Yeah, I remember even seeing a stat when like Larry Bird like led the league in 3 pointers, but he shot like just a fraction of what they shoot these.

Oh, I mean, and he could shoot, he could shoot, yeah, it was allowed to shoot as well, and I just wanted to say, just talking about, um, athletics and sports just to kind of chime in there to kind of.

Wrap this segment up as we kind of think about the other adventures.

It's interesting that stuff like sports and the world of sports that we think of, I think some folks from the outside might think about it as more static, meaning, you know, the game is the game, right?

Like the, the rules are pretty much the same as they've always been, you know, running, track is pretty much the same, uh, different sports, swimming, anything that you pick.

Actually, there's been a lot of innovation.

Basketball is a good example.

That the nature of the game and different choices have led players to perfect certain aspects of their capabilities, and that's interesting because we always think about it less dynamic than potentially, let's say the business world, right?

Um, and so it's, it's, it's interesting to reflect on how things have changed over the years.

Yeah.

Well, it has changed dramatically, uh, as far as the, the, the, the, the.

Rules of the game, whatever, but it's still the concept defense, put the ball to the basket, win period.

If you do that, you win, you get, and you gotta play.

They don't, they don't play hard anymore.

There's no concept of the game the way it used to be.

Steph Curry's changed the game with threes, uh, automatically.

I mean, you could shoot a 3 from half court.

I mean, I don't understand that, but it is what it is.

Pretty worth more than 2.

But I think people realized even last year when Oklahoma Cityity started the short game again, and they were very dominant, so everybody's trying to emulate that now, coming back, especially with their players.

But think about this, in the, in the analytic stage, I was the analytic and the player development coach for the Phoenix Suns for a couple of years, and there were some decent players.

And the owner was saying, OK, Ralph, I want you to teach this guy how to shoot a jump hook.

And I want him to do that in the game.

I was like, OK, uh, but Mr.

Owner.

He, he's at the three-point line and how are you gonna shoot a jump hook when they're picking three-point line.

So the offense would be an innovation it was totally different, but then the analytics started to come in.

And we would do it as a videotape and the whole analytics is about 10 years ago now, but it was coming in, but it didn't say in the analytics that it, it said, you shoot from here, and, and you're more effective by shooting here than over there.

OK, great.

It gives you the, the, uh, analytics, but it doesn't tell you who you're playing defense against.

And so, if you're playing against me and I'm blocking a shot, but it doesn't tell you that.

It may have evolved since then, but I doubt it, but the analytics is so way off.

But it's how the business is, is valued, right?

On the analytics side, they don't value by wins or losses anymore.

They value by the value of the team across the whole gamut of the team.

And I've been hearing this whole fan experience thing because nobody's really a value to the team anymore for wins or losses or championships.

It's, it's the fat experience to come in.

Can you be entertained, and that raises the, the value of a team.

Amazing, yeah, so interesting.

I mean, that's a great segue into kind of the, the venture capital work and kind of what, I mean, what are you seeing?

I mean, there's clearly like.

The technology piece you were alluding to this, like the analytics now.

I, I imagine the next phase is gonna be, you know, using AI and other modeling techniques to just dive deeper into finding all those little edges that you might have on the, the court.

But I mean, I'm just curious, what are you, what are you seeing kind of coming down that's exciting or interesting?

Well, I happened to be at the NBA All-Star Game a couple of weeks ago.

And it was planned in the Clippers' new arena.

And when I say state of the art arena, they left nothing unturned.

It's state of art.

So, I first I walk in and You won't have a ticket, you have it on your phone.

And you have to have their passkey and all you have to have theirs, so you got to get there and download all this, but I'm not that technical with that.

Give me the ticket and me walk in.

Walk in, and then, as you walk in, it takes a picture of you and it recognizes your face anywhere around the building you go.

Wow.

And it takes your phone with your credit card on it.

So if you walk in the the concession stand, there's nobody there.

You just walk into a gate, it takes your picture, it's your credit card.

You walk out with what you got and it scans everything in your hand.

It's all about the fan experience.

I was at the Bomber Group family office in the summer in Seattle, and they were telling us the story because they own the, the, the arena there.

It's extraordinary what they've done in that.

It's all about the fans' experience, right?

It's all about that.

Only I like it's kind of really steep on the side, so the upper seats are really bad, I think.

But the, uh, scoreboard is, I mean, you look up, there's this huge scoreboard.

I mean, you don't have to look at the game.

Because you can't see it anyway from that, but the scoreboard, the scoreboard is amazing.

And then they were voting on who had the dunk contest.

You could push a button on your seat and push it, and you can vote right there from every seat in the building.

That's incredible.

So, anything analytic, anything you want to do.

And then the biggest thing there, if you see a seat down below that's empty, you can push in here and it will change your seat to that seat because they want the lower bowl full, filled for, for television.

So that, that arena is way, way off the chart.

I want to write a case about this.

This is a case writing opportunity.

Do do you think, I mean, does this sort of distract from the game itself, to your point, like it becomes almost more, I mean, it is a form of entertainment, but at the same time, you know, it's sports, there's winners and losers, or does it just become again about the experience and less about the wins and losses?

Well, because the game has changed as far as the physicality or the art of the game.

It's gotta be more Phoenix Mayors.

I was hearing Magic Johnson about the Dodgers and what they put in.

They put $100 million into the Dodgers Stadium for the Phoenix Mars.

Because the Dodgers are good.

I mean, Lakers, Dodgers, those big market teams have to be good because I mean, the Lakers just sold for $10 billion and the Buss family sold, I'm involved with the Padre trying to do an acquisition there with other baseball and all these teams, and baseball is trying to raise their level of fan experience as well.

Football is trying to do that.

I mean, the new, the new Commander Stadium, when you see that, it's gonna be way off the chart.

It's gonna be just like almost the Clippers, but the fan experience has to be huge there.

But what's happening, the fan experience is increasing, but the level of play is decreasing.

The thing about when LeBron James 20 some years in the league, Kevin Durant and Steph Curry.

I don't know who else is gonna watch after that, that has that type of brand, um, because that's not being built right now with the upcoming players.

It's coming, but now the game is worldwide.

Now you got NBA Africa, you got NBA Europe, um, they're expanding like crazy right now, uh, just because of the market value.

I mean, if you want to invest in an NBA Europe team, it's a billion dollars per team already, already.

I mean, they ain't, they ain't out of the league yet per team.

And so sports right now is taking over the world, and I think if, if I'm right, sports has always Made people bond together across the world, right?

So, we can compete nicely, but you might like this team, I my like team, but we can talk noise and, and craziness at that point in time.

And then again, we're like, OK, great, you want, and be at peace with that.

So I think sports is gonna take over a lot of things this world needs.

You're talking about the passion of the fan base, you know, clearly for colleges and collegiate athletics, uh, there's a, there's a synergy there that just builds affinity and builds these lifelong connections.

This world has been changing, but it is dramatically dramatically changed in the last few years here.

Uh, now with NIL, the ability to pay players that the universities themselves are paying players, um, almost unlimited free agency, uh, the transfer portal being available at all times.

Uh, maybe I should, where do you see this going?

I mean, but is, are we at, I mean, is this gonna be stable or is this gonna, gonna change in your opinion?

Uh, it's got to change some.

I mean, it's with the wild wild west a couple of years ago, and it's, it's calming down a little bit.

Um.

It, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's good and bad.

I think players, Should get paid something.

Um, but I also think players at the NBA does, because we go through so much, especially football.

At a young age with concussions and all the things you may have for life.

There's got to be something that has the best insurance after the fact to help them out as well.

So I think that needs to change.

The second is that when you throw in our money without any financial literacy, because most of these athletes come from situations where they've never seen money, and it's happening over and over and over again, that's what NBA and professional sports leagues don't do a good job of if we're trying to tackle that issue as well because they go out and they buy whatever they want to buy, and then at the end of their career they have no money.

So I think that's hurt it.

But do you know what, what, what is the average tenure for even those who make it to the NBA's The NBA is, is, so you, you gotta get vetted out.

You gotta be in the NBA for 5 years, and most of them last 33, yeah, and if you get to 5 or 6, you, you, you, you pinch a group similar, yeah, similar, but it's not allowed to make, not allowed to make that right that standpoint.

Well, so what happens is that whole cycle is off, but You know, the Kentucky's of the world, the Dukes of the world, Carolina was paying guys anyway a long time ago, you know, which we do know, right, from that that perspective.

And then you said it, not me.

No, I, I, I've been there, so I've seen it, so I've seen it around.

So, but they, they were, and then.

You have to understand the ecosystem of the teams.

Kids are not going, I mean, I love the ACC.

I love UVA basketball, but how in the world is Stanford and those guys in the ACC now?

It's called the Atlantic Coast Conference, so we got teams from the West Coast, the Coast Coast Conference.

So it needs to be all coast.

It needs to change.

They're gonna have to change at some point, right?

But I'm gonna take a kid west.

And I got to study and go to class.

And I can do it virtually, which I understand and all that.

We didn't have that.

But I'm in a hotel room, I'm gonna eat and I'm gonna do classes while I'm on the road, and that's not gonna happen, right?

No, that's not gonna happen.

And 2, and the weirdest thing I've seen, you might have heard this as well, being at the university.

It says, I can take classes from Carolina or Duke, whatever, and add to my resume for my degree.

I'm like, why in the hell do I want to take classes at Carolina when I don't like them.

So the camaraderie is not there from that perspective with the portal.

You know, especially at any school, when you transfer a kid in for one year, the fan base is never going to know that guy, personally.

You might know the name on the back of, oh, we had this guy for one year, but you never know who that guy.

I think that's the drawback for me.

After, you know, a number of you have been out of UVA as well in the NBA, but I got people here still that I know from when I went to school, or who I went to school with.

We started with that, you know, the experience you had living in the lawn and all that whole community, and will this current generation of players that they're gonna miss that.

I have to give a quick story that I, I hope my daughter doesn't mind me sharing.

So my daughter is actually a senior at the University of Tennessee, and, uh.

She saw Evan Nolte at a at a game.

He's a former UVA basketball player, and she grew up watching UVA basketball.

Went up to Evan and was like, Oh my goodness, like watching you and all that, and he was like blown away that she knew him.

But you know the Evan Noltes because he was here for, I assume, I think it was all 4 years and we're like became part of that lifeblood the Eagles community, whereas again if you're here for, you know, in some cases just a few months.

You know, do you get those relationships?

What, what's the implication for the, for, you know, call them kids, but these young adults, um, long term if they're moving around?

I mean, are they getting an education?

Are they getting that affinity?

I don't think they get an education, and they're not building karate with their, their, their, their teammates enough and or the ecosystem at the school because 20,000 people, 30,000 people on campus that you get to network with and go out and have fun with.

And build relations with is gonna be good.

And so when you get out, who are you gonna hang out with?

And who are you gonna connect with in the business world.

That will give you a decent job or connect you with someone that that whole system is not gonna be good.

So maybe tell us a little bit about what you're doing with the Samson Academy here and how I, I like I said, I love the part here about uh plan your way to success here, you know, kind of in the long run, uh.

Um, please tell us more.

So we've been doing basketball stuff probably 40 years now.

Um, uh, you know, I, I helped a number of organizations.

One's achievement are limited with Fred Whitfield, the president of the Bobcats, with Michael Jordan.

We helped him start his many years ago, but Again, it goes back to my high school coach and teaching kids how to be successful on and off the court.

So I started back then with a program called MAP Motivation, attitude and Plan Your Way to Success on and off the court.

So we still do that with kids today.

We revamped it over the years.

My sons now are helping, taking that over.

Uh, we're in Harrisburg with the facility that we teach kids today.

But we get kids every day like, I want to go to the NBA or I want to play college.

Oh, let's, let's start with 8th grade, you know.

Let's start with not trying to develop your all your skills today.

Uh, and you have to think about the Situation now, so all the big shoe companies, there's 4 of them that have the best kids in the world.

Period, because nobody's gonna make them.

NBA NBA has 450 kids, players, right?

But every kid in America wants to go to the NBA.

You can dream it.

I don't wanna bust your dream, but let's be real.

And then I was the same way.

So if you get NL money and go to university, get the money, right, because you're not going to the league, but you better do something with that money and save it because you never see that type of money again unless you get a job at that level.

So it's got a long way to develop with NIL and the, and the whole system, I think, and academics.

And I don't think these kids will be educated well enough to be able to do simple things in life.

Because they never experienced it.

I did some work with the NCAA working with their coaches program, and they just, every coach would say this, right, that like 100% of their kids think they're going pro.

Like they all think that they're, and like you said, you want to have that dream, but the, the facts are the facts.

It's not that many who get this, get this opportunity.

Well, that's worldwide, right, you, you, you know, in the United States, you had a chance to go.

Anthony, when I was, like, when we were up at UVA we played for two years against the Russians, Tachikov and Sabonis.

And don't, I tell people all the time we played them in Richmond.

Best games in the world because I want to compete on the world stage.

We got to do that, but I didn't get to go to the Olympics, so they boycotted it.

But we played against those two.

And then in the NBA when I went to Golden State, we had, uh, Serena Barcelonas, they played one of the best European players there, and then started there, and then it kind of expanded.

Now every team has it.

I tell people all the time, the NBA is not just a game, it's a business, right?

So think about this.

They just traded recently, Luca from Dallas.

To the Lakers for Anthony Davis.

Why?

One, LeBron James, this model was LeBron James' agent off the league.

Lakers are valued at $10 billion.

So you got to keep their value up.

And then Luke could go there, his jersey sales worldwide with number 6.

And in 5 days they went to number 1 Economics, right?

So Anthony Davis gets traded.

The general manager from Dallas gets reprimanded.

Anthony Davis comes, he gets hurt.

Now that team's a bust.

He gets fired.

Anthony Davis now gets traded to Washington.

Why is he, you know, 1415 years in the league, that's a bad move for Washington.

I love Anthony Davis to death.

He's got to get healthy, but now they have to put a team around him so he can play.

So it's not the game, it's the business.

And then worldwide you got more people playing overseas to come to the NBA because now it's a worldwide game.

And the only way you can value that team now is to make it worldwide because the economics are off the chart and then it can't get any bigger in the United States.

So I have to go see, and the NBA will have that, uh, uh, Las Vegas and Seattle, be the two new teams in the league within this year, I do believe.

Baseball is gonna have 2 more teams.

Football is set the way it is because they make the most money in sports.

Yeah, Female sports, that's where the business growth is.

Women's sports is, uh, where there's a lot of momentum and opportunity for growth, right, um, because the market is tapped in many ways.

Well, well, football found that out quickly because of, uh, football and, and catering to women, uh, for football for sure, right?

And then WNBA is now taking off from that standpoint, but, you know, it's not the male anymore, it's, it's the family, but the women are taking the sports to.

No level for sure.

Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask a little bit about your experience in other industries like the hospitality.

You partnered with another one of our alums, Thompson Hospitality Group that we're familiar with at Darden, um, and you, you, you opened a tap room in Charlottesville and you experienced it, uh, that you've been doing podcasts before Mike and I even start talking about having a podcast.

Um, how satisfying is it?

Did you enjoy?

What did you learn from those experiences kind of dappling in some other adjacent industries?

Yeah, Temple and how we go.

I wouldn't have done it without them.

Obviously, for no reason, they have a big engine and they went to Darden.

So, we, we collaborated.

We were, uh, I was in undergrad, I was in grad, uh, uh, when we were here.

And I never wanted to be in a restaurant, but I used to own Tony Romos, uh, in, in Houston, whatever, and I, I enjoyed that experience, but I owned the real estate.

I didn't own the, the, the, the restaurant, but I was part of, but I owned the real estate, which was the best part.

Anyone sell, selling that over the years.

And then when we came back, well, let's do this.

Let's do this restaurant and show up there in Barry's Road that we can do that.

We'll call it Ralph's house, Ralph's tap room.

OK, we did that.

It was a good run for 4 or 5 years, but the market with the pandemic, and we opened the pandemic year.

Um, that was hard, obviously, I mean.

It took us a year to get it open because we couldn't get furniture, we couldn't get anything because it's all overseas.

It was all on containers, but we got it open.

And when you have a big engine around you like that, you can turn stuff around pretty quickly.

And so we did, and then it moved, move, move, and then over the years, we said, OK, great, this, we want to be at this level, but where's the market now in Charlottesville?

And First Wash down the street was doing really well because of breakfast in Charlottesville proper, the area, the, the crowd got older, so we had to cater to that.

So we changed and pivoted.

Within a 3 or 4 week period of time, you can change your pivot and make it a different restaurant, name, age, whatever, and that's powerful, right?

So, it's milk and honey now.

Um, and, you know, I, I tell him them let's change it because I don't, I don't really worry about my name being on something like that because my dad is Ralph Sampson Senior and that's the biggest one that we got.

I got my my son is junior.

So we made that pivot, we stayed involved, but we're now doing, you know, what we need to be to some extent because we're able to do that.

So I look at business like that where you have to make adjustments and if you can make them quickly on the fly, you're better off than making it over long term because it'll cost you less money.

If you can just build it the right way first and make, be able to make a pivot into an industry because today's world is totally different.

It's totally different.

I love that theme.

I mean, we talk about it a lot in our classes like an entrepreneurship, the idea of, of the pivot and having to be responsive to changing and then goes to the bath where you got a pivot foot.

That's right.

It all, she would not know anything about that because she's a runner.

She know about the pivot foot.

I just went straight, yeah, there you go, there you go.

Well, unfortunately, we're gonna have, we're gonna have to wrap this up, but I'm curious if you like any, any last advice to, you know, fellow disruptors out there who are whatever field of study or field of, you know, uh, that they're, they're working in, uh, what would you give?

Yeah, I mean, I, I, you know, there used to be a You're, coming out a playbook for success, right?

You, if you follow A, B, C, D, and ES, this time, this world right now, it's no, there's no playbook that you got to take things in order.

You got to be flexible enough, nimble enough, but you also have to build a solid foundation before you start building anything.

So you can pivot and you want an extra room or go higher, you want to go wider.

Once you build that foundation of education, especially at Darden, number one business school in the world, you have to understand what that's about.

And most people.

Young kids think it's, oh, I can do it on the phone or I can do it the easy way.

And that's not the way it happens.

You still got to grind.

I don't care if you're doing social media on the phone.

You still got to do it and figure it out and make it work because you can post all day long.

It doesn't mean anything.

If you post at the right time and the right content, then you can be successful.

So, you have to adjust in this market right now to the market, but you have to grind even more.

Than we did growing up because there was structure and now there's all this other stuff, analytics, AI, all this stuff happening.

And if we had those tools, we would never wrote a paper in college.

Typewriter, writing paper, so that's no deal, but technology has taken over and it's, it's gonna get even higher and higher and higher to me.

Well, Ralph, thank you so much for making time and being with us here.

Uh, great advice there at the end.

Yeah, as always, wonderful to be with you.

Wonderful to be with you.

Such an inspiration, Ralph.

Thank you so much.

I, I love the fact that everything we do, whether it's Uh, you know, for our, our, you know, enjoyment in our free time as our, our kind of, uh, recreational activity or things that we do when we're young in terms of like part of, of, of our, you know, what we spend our time perfecting even professionally or amateuristically, they all weave in together and help shape the leaders that we are in our industries, and I, I love that theme.

So thank you for sharing.

Thank you so much for having me.

And the next time you run, is that tomorrow? you're running tomorrow or today?

I don't know.

I haven't decided yet.

Take, take the 1st 20 steps with me, because I, I won't be running.

Take the 1st 20 steps.

All right, well, as always, let me thank our producer Gary, our lead researcher Becky.

Uh, this is good disruption.

Have a great day.

Have a great day, everybody.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Good Disruption is a podcast from the University of Virginia Darden School of Business.

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